Metagame NP: Stage 0 - We've Only Just Begun (Welcome to SV NU) [Quickbans Post #142]

[Fragmented]

Hi, here are the stats for Round 2.

NU Kickoff Tour Round 2

+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon              | Uses | Usage % |  Win %  +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Sandaconda           |   33 |  43.42% |  54.55% |
| 2    | Goodra               |   25 |  32.89% |  56.00% |
| 3    | Copperajah           |   24 |  31.58% |  54.17% |
| 3    | Passimian            |   24 |  31.58% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Oricorio-Pom-Pom     |   22 |  28.95% |  59.09% |
| 6    | Vaporeon             |   17 |  22.37% |  64.71% |
| 7    | Bruxish              |   13 |  17.11% |  69.23% |
| 8    | Muk                  |   12 |  15.79% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Frosmoth             |   12 |  15.79% |  41.67% |
| 8    | Lycanroc             |   12 |  15.79% |  41.67% |
| 11   | Zoroark              |    9 |  11.84% |  55.56% |
| 12   | Drifblim             |    8 |  10.53% |  75.00% |
| 12   | Umbreon              |    8 |  10.53% |  50.00% |
| 12   | Jolteon              |    8 |  10.53% |  37.50% |
| 12   | Hattrem              |    8 |  10.53% |  37.50% |
| 12   | Braviary             |    8 |  10.53% |  25.00% |
| 12   | Venomoth             |    8 |  10.53% |  12.50% |
| 18   | Skuntank             |    7 |   9.21% |  85.71% |
| 18   | Scyther              |    7 |   9.21% |  85.71% |
| 18   | Chansey              |    7 |   9.21% |  71.43% |
| 18   | Perrserker           |    7 |   9.21% |  57.14% |
| 18   | Spiritomb            |    7 |   9.21% |  42.86% |
| 18   | Lurantis             |    7 |   9.21% |  28.57% |
| 18   | Klawf                |    7 |   9.21% |  28.57% |
| 25   | Whiscash             |    6 |   7.89% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Dudunsparce          |    6 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Crabominable         |    6 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Haunter              |    6 |   7.89% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Medicham             |    6 |   7.89% |  16.67% |
| 25   | Tauros-Paldea-Combat |    6 |   7.89% |  16.67% |
| 31   | Pyroar               |    5 |   6.58% |  80.00% |
| 31   | Clawitzer            |    5 |   6.58% |  80.00% |
| 31   | Vespiquen            |    5 |   6.58% |  60.00% |
| 31   | Rotom                |    5 |   6.58% |  60.00% |
| 31   | Crocalor             |    5 |   6.58% |  40.00% |
| 31   | Mabosstiff           |    5 |   6.58% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Oricorio             |    4 |   5.26% |  75.00% |
| 37   | Sawsbuck             |    4 |   5.26% |  75.00% |
| 37   | Eelektross           |    4 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Jumpluff             |    4 |   5.26% |  25.00% |
| 37   | Zangoose             |    4 |   5.26% |  25.00% |
| 42   | Veluza               |    3 |   3.95% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Misdreavus           |    3 |   3.95% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Houndoom             |    3 |   3.95% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Honchkrow            |    3 |   3.95% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Rabsca               |    3 |   3.95% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Oricorio-Sensu       |    3 |   3.95% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Carkol               |    3 |   3.95% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Spidops              |    3 |   3.95% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Indeedee-F           |    3 |   3.95% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Quaxwell             |    2 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Frogadier            |    2 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Fraxure              |    2 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Camerupt             |    2 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Toedscool            |    2 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Farigiraf            |    2 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Qwilfish             |    2 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Glimmet              |    2 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Morgrem              |    2 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Rotom-Frost          |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Toxicroak            |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Rotom-Fan            |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Cacturne             |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Falinks              |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Vivillon-Fancy       |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Drakloak             |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly-White   |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Sudowoodo            |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly         |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Persian              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Tinkatuff            |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Basculin             |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Golduck              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Wigglytuff           |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Appletun             |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Kricketune           |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Electrode            |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Raichu               |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly-Blue    |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Ursaring             |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Flapple              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Dedenne              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Murkrow              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Glaceon              |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |

individual form stats

| 30   | Dudunsparce          |    5 |   6.58% |  60.00% |
| 60   | Dudunsparce-Three-Segment |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Sawsbuck-Autumn      |    2 |   2.63% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Sawsbuck             |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Sawsbuck-Summer      |    1 |   1.32% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly         |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly-White   |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Squawkabilly-Blue    |    1 |   1.32% |   0.00% |

76 teams, so 38 games played, 84 unique pokemon used (including the 3 different Squawkabilly forms)

Fell down from 1st to 3rd. People are figuring out how to exploit Scarf sets.
It's hard to take it down from the special side, especially now that it can Tera.
A consistent special sponge that can spread Toxic and lay TSpikes.
From 3 uses to 6, Crabominable has been gaining traction as a solid AV user that can threaten out many things in the tier.

 

[EonX]

Gonna post a couple of cores I've actually enjoyed using the past couple of days:

Sets

Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab


Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Rest
- Earthquake


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Calm Mind

This is a balance core that provides entry hazards, checks to much of the meta with strong emergency tera options based on the situation, and even a win-con late-game so that it can also work on more stall-ish builds. Muk is super slept on right now, but it spreads Poison like no other and even packs Haze to ruin QD sweepers. Tera Ghost is on it to completely dodge Close Combats while maintaining the Bug resistance and gaining a Normal immunity to stall out Zangoose a turn or two. You can probably fit in Protect over Drain Punch, but having a direct way to chip at Copper is pretty nice. Sandaconda is really the MVP of the tier rn and I really feel that Tera Fairy is absolutely insane on it. With Tera Fairy, it all of a sudden becomes super strong against the Fighters, Mabosstiff, Honchkrow, and can also significantly hamper the progress of Goodra and Bruxish. Shed Skin + Rest is reliable enough recovery and having a pseudo-status absorber that also just kind of blanket checks most of the top mons rn is super clutch. If used on Stall, you can probably replace Glare with Rock Slide or Stone Edge to emergency hit QD mons since Para isn't as important for those teams. Vaporeon + Toxic Spikes is super obnoxious btw. Imagine having a Wish passer for 80% of the game and then all of a sudden it just goes for game once stuff is Poisoned. Obviously, if you're using it with Umbreon on Stall, feel free to add in Substitute and Ice Beam over WishTect or Rest + Sleep Talk if you want to recreate the CroCune of old. Tera Steel allows Vaporeon to sponge Draco Meteor from Goodra, Play Rough from Mabosstiff, Tera Dragon Dragon Pulse + Hydro Pump from Clawitzer, and, perhaps most importantly for a slow setup sweeper, make itself immune to Poison. Tera Dark is also good for more comfortably handling Bruxish as Crunch still rips apart Tera Steel variants.

Sets

Tauros-Paldea-Combat (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Raging Bull

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Tera Blast

For more offensive teams, this is actually a really solid speed control core. I know Passimian is overall better for its utility, I've come to love Tauros's higher Speed tier giving it the leg up on +1 QD mons... 80% of the time at least because we all know how Stone Edge works. If you don't care much about QD mons, that's fine! Tauros can run Adamant and still get the leg up on opposing Scarf Passimian and Trailblaze Medicham. Nothing like beating the other Fighters with your superior Speed tier. Raging Bull is also neat for the odd Screens team and doubles as a fine cleaning tool if Close Combat's power isn't needed and / or the defense drops aren't desired. Speaking of speed, Jolteon is the fastest unboosted Pokemon in the tier that's actually good. (sorry Electrode. Maybe someday, Game Freak will give you some Special Attack stat buffs) This is especially strong with Tauros as it means that if Jolteon just needs the opposing Scarfer out of the game to clean, it can be pretty easy to set up that scenario. Tera Grass dismantles Whiscash while still keeping a strong hit on Vaporeon and Tera Water versions of Copperahjah and Sandaconda. You're almost never going to use Shadow Ball, but... what else are you going to use? And yes, if you don't care about Tauros's advantages over Passimian, then feel free to just use Passimian alongside Jolteon for a speedy VoltTurn core that can run circles around lots of teams.

 

[Spacial]

Rapid fire thoughts on some things I've used lately, in no particular order:



Spdef is a pretty cool check to the electrics, notably resisting both of Magneton's STABs. Compresses roles nicely with rocks as well.



Losing knock sucks for it, but still has insane coverage and good offenses to utilize them. AV in particularly works great as a general special tank.



I think everyone and their grandma agrees this thing is cracked. CB Stakeout Crunches hit for nuclear damage, and we're hardly short on pivots to enable it.



Does Vapo things, i.e. be annoying to kill and make opposing waters regret their existence. I quite like Haze as an anti-HO tech.

/

Busted. Friendly reminder that dancer effectively lets bulky defog sets check offensive variants.



Honestly kinda underwhelming. Tera + Tera Blast is cool on paper, but in practice it just doesn't hit hard enough.



SD Acro is nuts, just watch you don't Strength Sap the Passimian by accident (totally not speaking from experience.)

 

[MasterPlayer]

I'd like to mention that Spidops isn't half-bad in NU, because it can live hits that it shouldn't live, like for example LO Midday Lycanrock Accelerock

 

[Pabloaram]

Talkig off Jolteon


Seeing in 2 consecutive post that show the 2 side of the coin.
Jolteon is the faster unboosted mon in the tier but you need to run terablast and use your tera to make it work.
Whitout Tera (broken tool btw) Jolteon is still a Electric type whitout coverage to hit grounds.

2 electric types that i prefer over Jolteon are:


Bring more utility with Defog, better setup move in Quiver Dance and STAB Hurricane to hit (70% of the time) the ground, dragon and grasses that resist Electric- Revelation Dance


Bring all the coverage you want + AV is a nice pivot/check to QD mon

In my opinion Jolteon is still the "noob trap" mon. High speed is good but if that is the only saving grace Electrode is OU mon in comparition

 

[EonX]

Talkig off Jolteon


Seeing in 2 consecutive post that show the 2 side of the coin.
Jolteon is the faster unboosted mon in the tier but you need to run terablast and use your tera to make it work.
Whitout Tera (broken tool btw) Jolteon is still a Electric type whitout coverage to hit grounds.

2 electric types that i prefer over Jolteon are:


Bring more utility with Defog, better setup move in Quiver Dance and STAB Hurricane to hit (70% of the time) the ground, dragon and grasses that resist Electric- Revelation Dance


Bring all the coverage you want + AV is a nice pivot/check to QD mon

In my opinion Jolteon is still the "noob trap" mon. High speed is good but if that is the only saving grace Electrode is OU mon in comparition

I'm not going to disagree much with Ori and Eel being viable and that Ori is the best Electric in the tier. In fact, I doubt many people will argue against that. That being said, what Ground types do we have? I'm serious. Aside from Sandaconda, there's no common Grounds in the tier rn. Whiscash is remotely common, but you're not going to see it too often. Camerupt kind of falls into a similar category and is generally worse bc of how easily Vaporeon and Goodra come in on it. On the subject of Sandaconda, I'll re-iterate a very important point I made when discussing Jolteon; it's pretty common for Sandaconda to Tera defensively to stave off threats; commonly Fairy to check Mabosstiff, Passimian, and Medicham among others. As soon as it does that, what's stopping Jolteon (or any Electric really) from spamming Volt Switch to their heart's content? So yes, Jolteon's coverage is still shaky. Yes, Oricorio is better overall due to utiltity, sweeping potential, STAB coverage, etc. But the lack of Grounds in conjunction with a really high Speed tier is what makes Jolteon good in the tier rn. Especially considering the most common Ground type is typically not staying a Ground type for most games out of necessity. And guess what? If Sandaconda decides to stay Ground type to keep Jolteon from spamming Volt Switch, you can just take advantage of that with something else, like CB Mabosstiff or Tera Fighting Passimian.

 

[Fragmented]

Got knocked out of the tour, wanted to share some sets I've been having fun with.


Zangoose @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Immunity
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 244 HP / 48 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Shadow Claw
- Close Combat
- Switcheroo

It's not even a good set but leading off and knocking out Sandaconda out with Final Gambit turn 1 is always fun. Sandaconda has base 72 HP, Zangoose has 73. You could use Squawkabilly for your Final Gambit shenanigans instead since it does boast both a higher HP and higher Speed stat (it ties with Bruxish) while also offering momentum in U-turn. Zangoose gets Switcheroo to cripple stuff, and can chip the switch in and proceed to KO after. Just remember that 48 Atk investment hits like a dried sock fresh out of the dryer.


Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpD / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Milk Drink
- Rock Slide

During week 1 when Tera Ground QD Frosmoth was more common, I came up with this. This was also before Muk and Skuntank were more common, so there wasn't as much need to worry about Toxic and TSpikes. Tera Water Gogoat can tank hits from Frosmoth or bait Fire Blast from Goodra and set up. It has enough speed to outspeed 0 Spe Sandaconda, allowing you to at least get one hit off before getting paralyzed. You could drop Milk Drink for Earthquake as Copperajah and the poisons are becoming more common.


Farigiraf @ Leftovers
Ability: Armor Tail
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 172 HP / 16 Def / 84 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Psyshock
- Tera Blast

The EVs are a bid random. Admittedly, the 16 Def doesn't help Farig survive anything it wouldn't already have from full, but it does lessen the values of the in between damage rolls. 232 Spe is enough to outspeed Scarf Pass at +2, I just went a bit over. 172 HP hits allows you to tank hits, though I mainly did it for a nice number of 424, and the rest goes into SpA. Modest 110 base SpA is hella strong, just ask Goodra.
Dual Dance Farig is definitely a threat worth using, though Tera Fairy is probably not the best Tera anymore with Copper running about. Psyshock over Stored Power so you don't get hard-walled by Quiver Dancers, Dudunsparce and Chansey. Tera Electric is just for the para immunity, though setting up on Pom-Pom for free is also nice. I considered Tera Ground as an option to also hit Copper harder, but remembered that Glare doesn't care about that.

I think these are about the only ones worth sharing. Anyways, have fun and ban Bruxish!

 

[TheBulletInMyHead]

Farigiraf @ Leftovers
Ability: Armor Tail
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 172 HP / 16 Def / 84 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Psyshock
- Tera Blast

The EVs are a bid random. Admittedly, the 16 Def doesn't help Farig survive anything it wouldn't already have from full, but it does lessen the values of the in between damage rolls. 232 Spe is enough to outspeed Scarf Pass at +2, I just went a bit over. 172 HP hits allows you to tank hits, though I mainly did it for a nice number of 424, and the rest goes into SpA. Modest 110 base SpA is hella strong, just ask Goodra.
Dual Dance Farig is definitely a threat worth using, though Tera Fairy is probably not the best Tera anymore with Copper running about. Psyshock over Stored Power so you don't get hard-walled by Quiver Dancers, Dudunsparce and Chansey. Tera Electric is just for the para immunity, though setting up on Pom-Pom for free is also nice. I considered Tera Ground as an option to also hit Copper harder, but remembered that Glare doesn't care about that.

I think these are about the only ones worth sharing. Anyways, have fun and ban Bruxish!

Cool set! But, if you're running Tera Electric, wouldn't you rather run Thunderbolt in your last slot to be less reliant on Tera?

 

[Togkey]

Cool set! But, if you're running Tera Electric, wouldn't you rather run Thunderbolt in your last slot to be less reliant on Tera?

Non-Tera'd Tera Blast Functions as STAB regardless

 

[TheBulletInMyHead]

Non-Tera'd Tera Blast Functions as STAB regardless

you right, my bad

 

[Fragmented]

I am chronically online and lack social interaction. Anyway, here are the stats for Round 3.

NU Kickoff Tour Round 3

+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon              | Uses | Usage % |  Win %  +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Passimian            |   21 |  43.75% |  47.62% |
| 1    | Goodra               |   21 |  43.75% |  42.86% |
| 3    | Oricorio-Pom-Pom     |   20 |  41.67% |  60.00% |
| 3    | Sandaconda           |   20 |  41.67% |  55.00% |
| 5    | Vaporeon             |   18 |  37.50% |  55.56% |
| 6    | Copperajah           |   16 |  33.33% |  56.25% |
| 7    | Bruxish              |    9 |  18.75% |  44.44% |
| 7    | Skuntank             |    9 |  18.75% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Jolteon              |    8 |  16.67% |  25.00% |
| 10   | Chansey              |    7 |  14.58% |  71.43% |
| 11   | Vespiquen            |    6 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 11   | Muk                  |    6 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 11   | Drifblim             |    6 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Tauros-Paldea-Combat |    5 |  10.42% |  80.00% |
| 14   | Eelektross           |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Scyther              |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Mabosstiff           |    5 |  10.42% |  40.00% |
| 14   | Zoroark              |    5 |  10.42% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Haunter              |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 19   | Umbreon              |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 19   | Cacturne             |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 19   | Farigiraf            |    4 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Rotom                |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 19   | Braviary             |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 25   | Dudunsparce          |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Crabominable         |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Whiscash             |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Lurantis             |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Lycanroc             |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Quaxwell             |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Sawsbuck             |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Pyroar               |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Klawf                |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 25   | Oricorio-Sensu       |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Hattrem              |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Spiritomb            |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Clawitzer            |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Camerupt             |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Jumpluff             |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Venomoth             |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Morgrem              |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Medicham             |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Perrserker           |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Frosmoth             |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Toxicroak            |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Fraxure              |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Honchkrow            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Misdreavus           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Ursaring             |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Frogadier            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Carkol               |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Crocalor             |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Stonjourner          |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Houndoom             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Scovillain           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Gogoat               |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Masquerain           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Basculin             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Indeedee-F           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Appletun             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Zangoose             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Rabsca               |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Tinkatuff            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Persian              |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Dugtrio              |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |

other stats

| 34   | Dudunsparce-Three-Segment |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Dudunsparce          |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
only one sawsbuck form was used apparently

64 unique mons used among 48 teams that I could get replays on, so 24 games.

Passimian and Goodra tie for number 1, with Sandaconda and Pompomcorio following close after. Vaporeon and Copperajah take up spots 5 and 6, both pretty close in uses. A decent drop in uses happens after, with Bruxish and Skuntank tying for 7 and Jolteon following at 9. To round off the top 10, we have everyone's third pink blob of all time, Chansey.

Interesting to note how Skuntank has risen over Muk as the grounded Poison of choice. It provides a better speed stat, STAB Sucker Punch as a revenge kill option, and Taunt to prevent recovery and Defog.

Zoroark usage still remains decently high, with it being a strong and fast Dark special attacker in a tier severely lacking of good Dark resists. However, it has not performed as well, similar to Mabosstiff. Umbreon is also in a good spot, being a reliable special sponge that isn't as passive as Chansey with tools like Foul Play at its disposal. Rounding off the list of notable Dark types, we have Cacturne, which has 4 uses this week as compared to only 1 in week 2. Bruxish answers are severely lacking, and Cacturne answers the call to fill in this role while also providing offensive presence and Spikes if so needed.

Medicham usage drops further to a new low as Passimian stonks continue to rise. Pauros, while not as popular, has proven itself a consistent option with a 80% win rate, though that is only out of the 5 times it was brought.

Also, for the first time, Dudunsparce-Three-Segment have taken over Dudunsparce-Two-Segment in usage.

 

[EonX]

As is customary, I guess I'll share my thoughts on what these stats show:

Despite Passimian and Goodra both being #1 in most uses, it's the 3 just behind them that seem to be the most reliable "super good" options with 55%+ win rates on all of Pompomcorio, Sandaconda, and Vaporeon. Similar to the first two weeks, this seems to point to Balance and Bulky Offense teams being the most consistent playstyles in the meta right now in spite of the crazy power level of some threats in the tier. Copperajah's solid 56% win rate also points to this being true and its rising usage shouldn't be all too surprising as the tier generally lacks special sponges that can hit back OR phaze depending on the situation at hand.

Looking at the Poisons, Skuntank may have overtaken Muk in usage, but the latter's higher win rate suggests that it may be easier to build with. This is likely thanks in part to maintaining a Fighting resistance and having much higher special bulk to eat hits from Frosmoth, Goodra, and friends when needed. Even so, Skunk's rise in usage does show that its tools over Muk are certainly not to be overlooked.

Vespiquen should be used more. There, I said it. Vespiquen forms an amazing hazard stack core with Sandaconda or Copperajah, has a slow U-turn to get powerful wallbreakers in on favorable matchups, and even packs Toxic to ruin slow boosters as they come in, namely Calm Mind Vaporeon. Its high win rate reflects her great utility options for the tier and the ability to go either PhysDef or SpDef based on which SR user you have alongside it is just amazing.

As I mentioned in my Week 1 analysis, your Fighting type better be offering something else other than just brute force with CC. Medicham's steady fall in usage and low win rate attests to this. Passimian is the clear #1 Fighting type and as much as people may want to say Medicham is #2, I'd argue that it isn't even #4 right now. Paldean Tauros's high Speed tier, Intimidate, and ability to run Scarf or Bulk Up allows it to fit onto more teams. Crabominable's AV set has also shown itself to be a fairly reliable way to soft check Goodra on more offensive builds that otherwise have no hope of handling its powerful attacks and contributes to a bulky team's efforts to tag team it down. Tera Steel Iron Head also can quickly wear down unsuspecting Tera Fairy Sandaconda while crushing Frosmoth pre-Tera. Now, do I feel that Medicham is actually worse than these 2? Yes, and no. I feel it's better than Crab but worse than Tauros, but that's only based on paper. Usage, win rates, and the role compression that Tauros and Crab provide all point to Medi just not fitting as well into the meta as these two.

Some assorted thoughts that aren't tied to any specific type or role: Cacturne's ability to handle Bruxish relatively effectively is sorely needed, but also kinda shows how dumb the fish is. Conversely, Umbreon's ability to take most special hits while punishing physical attackers with Foul Play is a real boon in its favor. Haunter is still underrated and Eelektross's slow pivot capabilites to enable the likes of Goodra, Mabosstiff, and Bruxish is super valuable. Mabosstiff and Zoroark's subpar performances are likely due in part to them just being good and players needing to prepare for them in order to avoid just losing a mon whenever they come in. Perhaps you should use them with Vespiquen or Eelektross to help them get in more reliably.

 

[MegaUltra]

Ok guys, that's the new heat. Ever wanted a Scarfer faster than Pauros? Do you want to get a upper hand against a +1 Oricorio? Then here's the answer to your prayers!

Lycanroc @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Rush
Tera Type: Rock / Fighting / Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs / Rock Slide / Crunch
- Play Rough

Stone Edge is your strongest STAB. Close Combat is your second strongest move, hitting stuff like Copper, and Zoroark or Zangoose without missing. For the third slot, you can choose between hitting Muk and Venomoth without having to rely on Stone Edge, using either PFangs or Rock Slide, or use Crunch for dudunsparce, etc. Play Rough is the last move of choice as it can revenge kill Pauros, Goodra and Medicham in one slot. Have fun with it

 

[Danny]

Underrated/Underutilized Pokemon in the current SVNU Metagame
​

Going to begin this post with a brief disclaimer. Many of the pokemon on this list have been mentioned by others. My sets might be slightly different, however many people are beginning to become aware of these mons and their utility in the current meta. In no way are all of these my original ideas, and I will give credit where credit is due for the sets that I did not invent. Let's get into it!

AV

Crabominable @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Payback

In a tier with broken fighting types it is hard to justify using this slow ass crab. Even if that is the case, he brings a lot to the table in his own right. The second strongest fighting type, he has solid bulk which has led me to use him in conjunction with a wish passer to deal with Goodra and other set up threats. It notably beats the Oricorios with or without a tera(shakily) but also still puts immense pressure on teams with its strong stab moves. I have also faced a BU set which seems promising, along with a BU+Amnesia set which seems super memey but also cool ig. Look out for the crab he is definitely worth using on your fat or BOs if you want some bulk while keeping up the offensive pressure he places.

unburden

Drifblim @ Electric Seed / Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ghost / Fighting
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Air Slash / Tera Blast
- Strength Sap

defog

Drifblim @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aftermath
Tera Type: Ground / Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Strength Sap
- Defog
- Hex

Drifblim is criminally underrated imo. Unburden sets are potent late game after sufficient softening of an opponent's team. The variability of the Unburden set is up to your team's needs, but it is very good at sweeping late game. Defog is also under rated, and it will likely see more use after Ori is banned. It's ability to spread the status of your choice is unparalleled. It provides teams with crucial resistances and immunities, along with removing on the most common stealth rockers of the tier.

special attacker

Pyroar (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Rivalry
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Tera Blast
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

S/o Luck O' the Irish for this set. Pyroar definitely deserves more exploration. It has a really good speed tier compared to the rest of SV NU. It is strong and can run both of its stabs while keeping Tera Blast for if it decides to Tera. Tera Grass was my choice as Luck did not reveal a tera when we played, HOWEVER, I am sure others work just fine. Taunt, and Wisp are great disruption tools for the standard fat balance of the tier. Spreading Wisp in particular is nice as the 6% goes a long way throughout the course of a game. I recommend using this on a BO or balance team that does not mind those long drawn-out games, as Pyroar excels in those late.

CM pivot

Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Ice / Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast / Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

HOT TAKE ALERT. Jolteon is not as bad as you think! I have seen a lot of jolteon slander recently, and I do not understand where it is coming from. For what it is worth, I understand that most people hate dedicating tera to it. That would be its main drawback, as wasting your tera on the Jolteon could potentially hurt you throughout the course of a game. But I feel like the ability to have unwallable volt switches in a tier that has very little in the way of momentum is very useful. The ability to set up on a forced switch, Volt switch on a steel or dragon type, and then force that sequence again is very useful. Especially with hazards up Jolteon can become a major threat in its own right. When I played against Elfuseon he used a Tera Ghost set that got free set up on a choiced passimian. This in turn allowed him to win the game with boosted shadow balls. The tera ghost set might be worth exploring as well.

scarf

Indeedee-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic /Psyshock
- Trick
- Healing Wish
- Dazzling Gleam / Tera Blast / Hyper Voice

Crippled by the loss of Expanding Force, Indeedee is nowhere near where it was last generation. Unfortunately the mons in the tier are also not the kindest to it, making it really hard to justify using. However I do believe that a scarfed set is worthwhile on offenses that want a bit more security and a second chance at life. It is essentially a revenge killer and a sack to bring back a real threat but it does that job relatively well. Trick is also very useful to disrupt those fatter teams. Worth a try.

LOL

Falinks @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
- No Retreat
- Protect

If someone makes this work let me know. Ghost to set up multiple times I think. S/o OnArceus

Cash Money

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Protect
- Earth Power
- Spikes

I am guilty of using this a lot. It compresses many roles on offenses and gives me Future Sight which I am a fiend for. It is actually a really solid defensive piece and although it is mid in the grand scheme of things I feel for the cash and I like the utility Future Sight+Protect gives along with spikes. Worth a try.

sub NP

Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Draining Kiss
- Thunderbolt

Saw the schizo guys using this (pretty sure that is zS and a couple others but no 100% sure). It seems fun asf and can probably win a game or two here and there. Worth a try if anyone has a hankering for some weird shit.

 

[CrabominableSolos7]

I hope whoever reads this has a great rest of their day! In this thread I'm gonna be talking about why Venomoth should be banned from the NU format in Pokemon Showdown.

Every Pokemon in the NU format is there for usually one reason- it's almost never used. These Pokemon, including but not limited to Crabominable, Luxray and Goodra, have not been viable in the current meta, and as a result have been brought down to the lowest tier. However, a lot of NU players still come up with viable strategies in order to use these Pokemon in the best way possible.

Today, I'd like to discuss one Pokemon in this format that should potentially be banned from the NU format. That Pokemon is Venomoth, a Bug/Poison type with a Base Stat Total of 450 introduced in Generation 1. You might ask, "Why this Pokemon? It's just a weak Bug type!" And you have a good point, but it is so much more than your standard first route bug type.

First, let's look at Venomoth's abilities: Shield Dust, Tinted Lens, and Wonder Skin, which are all great abilities when applied to the right Pokemon. Tinted Lens in particular is the best one out of these three abilities, since it doubles the damage of not-very effective moves. For example, a Fire type move used on a Water type Pokemon would do double the damage than it would normally do, which makes Pokemon with Tinted Lens harder to switch into.

Tinted Lens on its own normally isn't something to look twice at, but let's look at its stats next. It's honestly mediocre at first glace, with its highest stats, Speed and Special Attack, at base 90. Those on its own are mediocre at best, but it's still powerful enough to get some KO's with its moves, which I'm about to discuss.

Venomoth gets powerful STAB moves such as Sludge Bomb, Venoshock and Bug Buzz, coverage such as Energy Ball and Air Slash, and utility moves such as Sleep Powder(More or less a second-hand Spore), Agility, and, worst of all, Quiver Dance.

Quiver dance is a move that increase the Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed of the Pokemon by one stage, and it's very dangerous if not handled correctly. This not only allows Venomoth to deal more damage, but it also can tank special attacks more and outspeed any Pokemon that might have outsped if it hadn't gone for Quiver Dance the turn before. It is basically Dragon Dance on steroids, and it's one of the reasons Volcarona was used so much last gen and this gen.

Starting to see the problem? Good. This Pokemon, if not immediately dealt with, can easily sweep entire teams. It can easily sweep by using Sleep Powder and then spamming Quiver Dance while this Pokemon is asleep. Trying to switch? No, it's still going to Quiver Dance. Pokemon such as Dudunsparce can be instantly 1-shot even if Venomoth goes for only ONE quiver dance. One of the only counters to this Pokemon is Goodra, but even it might die if Venomoth is allowed to set up too much. Any Pokemon that normally resist or are immune to Venomoth's STAB attacks will still die, since Tinted Lens literally doubles the damage, so it's basically a huge threat that will sweep your whole team.

Thank you for taking the time to read this thread, if you got that far. I'm basically calling for Smogon to, at the very least, suspect Venomoth if not ban it from the NU tier. I have seen Venomoth's power firsthand, both using it and seeing others use it, and I can tell you right now that it definitely needs to be banned from there.

Most Popular Set with Venomoth:
Venomoth @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

EDIT: I understand that NU is still in alpha, but I made this post ahead of time for when it reaches beta.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

None of this is really reasoning that a Pokémon should be banned, it's kind of just a description of the move Quiver Dance, which several Pokémon learn. It sounds like a YouTube video for kids not an argument. An actual argument a Pokémon should be banned should go into practical application against various threats and discuss counterplay or lack thereof. You're just explaining mechanics without giving examples of what makes them problematic

 

[tom holland]

doom (Eelektross) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 228 HP / 152 SpD / 128 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Substitute​

Substitute+Coil Eelektross is the truth in a sandaconda meta. 128 speed allows you to outpace the base 65s like vaporeon and umbreon, which feels nice. 228 hp evs is the most hp evs you can give this dude to optimize Leftovers recovery, and the rest is dumped in its special bulk to let it have thicc subs. Tera fighting allows you to turn the tables in a coil+stone edge sandaconda match-up. It hits surprisingly hard with no attack investment and only one or two coils. The best support you can give this from my experience is t-spikes support. It naturally beats mons that don't get poisoned by tspikes, and the rest of your team can deal with opposing grounded poisons.

Muk+Eelektross is the best combo I have utilized when using this set, so I recommend starting from there if you're going to build with it. Perhaps skuntank would be a nice mon to use in a core with the eel too, but I haven't tried it out. Lastly, learn to appreciate sub-spam when trying to close a game with this set. The tspikes damage will rack up when you spam sub, putting opposing threats in ko ranges with drain punch or tpunch.

 

[CrabominableSolos7]

None of this is really reasoning that a Pokémon should be banned, it's kind of just a description of the move Quiver Dance, which several Pokémon learn. It sounds like a YouTube video for kids not an argument. An actual argument a Pokémon should be banned should go into practical application against various threats and discuss counterplay or lack thereof. You're just explaining mechanics without giving examples of what makes them problematic

I know it's kind of a bad explanation, but I'm hoping you get the point! The idea is that Venomoth uses Sleep Powder and then sets up with Quiver Dance to sweep almost every other Pokemon in this meta.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

I know it's kind of a bad explanation, but I'm hoping you get the point! The idea is that Venomoth uses Sleep Powder and then sets up with Quiver Dance to sweep almost every other Pokemon in this meta.

So does Vivillon, and that has CompoundEyes

 

[breakaway08]

I know it's kind of a bad explanation, but I'm hoping you get the point! The idea is that Venomoth uses Sleep Powder and then sets up with Quiver Dance to sweep almost every other Pokemon in this meta.

Can't other Pokemon in the tier do the same thing? Plus, you can swap into Oricorio to take advantage of the Quiver Dance set up.

 

[Rabia]

The main reason Venomoth is so strong is its combination of all the traits CrabominableSolos7 mentioned. It sort of compresses Vivillon + Oricorio into one Pokemon but is significantly harder to switch into because of Tinted Lens. There are a few special walls that don't resist Bug and take on +1 or +2 Venomoth pretty well, i.e. Chansey and Goodra, but others like Copperajah, Muk, and Perrserker aren't as good as you'd hope them to be because they don't actually resist Bug Buzz. Sleep Powder just adds onto the headache because you have to predict between it immediately setting up (which you'd want Oricorio to come in on) or it using Sleep Powder, making counterplay more finnicky than at first glance.

 

[CrabominableSolos7]

So does Vivillon, and that has CompoundEyes

Compounds eyes just boosts accuracy, plus Tinted Lens makes Venomoth harder to switch into.

The main reason Venomoth is so strong is its combination of all the traits CrabominableSolos7 mentioned. It sort of compresses Vivillon + Oricorio into one Pokemon but is significantly harder to switch into because of Tinted Lens. There are a few special walls that don't resist Bug and take on +1 or +2 Venomoth pretty well, i.e. Chansey and Goodra, but others like Copperajah, Muk, and Perrserker aren't as good as you'd hope them to be because they don't actually resist Bug Buzz. Sleep Powder just adds onto the headache because you have to predict between it immediately setting up (which you'd want Oricorio to come in on) or it using Sleep Powder, making counterplay more finnicky than at first glance.

Thanks so much for giving a better explanation! But yeah, this is what I meant.

Can't other Pokemon in the tier do the same thing? Plus, you can swap into Oricorio to take advantage of the Quiver Dance set up.

Dancer doesnt actually activate when asleep! Weird, i know.

 

[Togkey]

Dancer doesnt actually activate when asleep! Weird, i know.

Thanks so much for giving a better explanation! But yeah, this is what I meant.

Compounds eyes just boosts accuracy, plus Tinted Lens makes Venomoth harder to switch into.

this did not need to be three separate posts, please try to keep things concise so the thread as a whole can be easier to read for newer players.

 

[Pokeslice]

Starting to see the problem? Good.

Great post! I'm definitely with you on this one. Venomoth was one of the first Pokemon that struck me as being too strong for the tier when it initially dropped, but it's been largely overshadowed by Oricorio-Pom-Pom as a QD demon. Personally, I would vote ban on Venomoth and I don't think it belongs in the tier long term. That being said, I think the other QD mons are also worth bringing up.



Another QD bug, only less broken because of its speed tier in all honesty, I've been finding Frosmoth to be one of the harder things to deal with on ladder, especially in conjunction with Tera Ground or Water that lets it bypass common checks in Copper, Crocalor or revenge killing from Accelerock. Definitely something I'm keeping an eye on personally.



I think Lilligant is also something fun everyone should be aware of down the line. I don't see it as necessarily ever being overbearing, but it does similar things to Venomoth with the combo of Sleep Powder + QD and Tera Ground can potentially catch Pokemon like Skuntank, Muk, Copper, and Crocalor off guard. I think Lilligant can make for a potential Choice Specs mon once Goodra is gone, too. 110 SpA + a 130 BP move is no joke.



I think this one is harder to judge because it's in the same tier as Pom-Pom, which everyone can agree is much better, but once Pom-Pom is banned, I think that Sensu can fill in both as a defensive defogger and as an offensive wincon with QD. Although Ghost / Flying isn't as ideal as Electric / Flying, Tera lets you bypass whatever you want because it's a broken mechanic! And you're still able to set up on Pokemon such as Toxicroak, a CC locked Pass, or Chansey if running Substitute. This mon is still definitely going to do Oricorio things.

 

[Perla]

Among the serious and informative comments of this thread, I'm here to affirm that the unofficial name of this tier is "QU", which stands for "Quiver dance Used"